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Torture: A, B or C

December 19, 2007

If you saw someone torturing someone else, what would you do?

a) walk away

b) join in–as long as the guy on the table is a Muslim terror suspect

c) demand that it stop and start kicking ass if it doesn’t

You can count me among the “c” guys. There are people right here in my hometown, seemingly normal Americans, who think torture is just fine. People who think that I, who would not tolerate it, am outrageously wrong about this.

When the fuck did we start condoning state sanctioned torture? Raise your hand right now if you’re for torture. I’ll make a list of people whom I would not let walk my dog, let alone have any position of responsibility or judgement. A list of moral retards.

You’ll notice, by the way, that this very reasonable position of mine precludes me from voting for any Republican running for president in 2008. (Correction: Excepting John McCain! The only one of the bunch to have actually been tortured himself.)

Think about it. Our fathers and grandfathers fought world wars, faced Hitler and his Nazi ideology–yet they didn’t resort to state sanctioned torture. They must be ashamed of us. Here we are, so frightened of a few thousand religious crazies with box cutters and shoe bombs that we’re busting out the waterboarding equipment.

Anyone who wants to trade their souls for some perceived security is a chickenshit motherfucker who should be kept far away from small children and sharp objects.

Angry? Me? Yeah. When someone tells me they’re in favor of, you know, torturing people, I get angry. Maybe that’s just me.

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  1. Amen. Although I am not religious – it seemed like the thing to say.

    Once you start down the path of torturing, extraordinary rendition, holding ‘detainees’ indefinitely without bring charges or a chance for a trial, we as a nation have lost our ‘moral authority’.

    I want to ask the Republican candidates who want us to believe they would call on Jack Bauer to torture brown people with much less hesitation than the other candidates, what would their priest, pastor, etc. (what is the Mormon equivalent of a priest) say about their eagerness to torture?


  2. I’m with “c” but have to ask one question…. What if it were Bush or Cheney on the waterboard?

    -A


  3. An excellent point about what our forebears did without the use of torture. Not only that, but it’s shown to be ineffective. Who wouldn’t say whatever they thought they needed to say in order to stop being tortured?

    What amazes me is that the very people who used to deride Bill Clinton for the legalistic questioning of the word “is” (which actually did have a legal point in his so doing) are now screwing around with the word “torture” as if some torture really isn’t. Please. Waterboarding is.

    And I don’t care what kind of ridiculous scenarios people throw around, like what if you KNEW your captive had planted a nuclear, sorry nukular device and you KNEW torture would get him to tell you where it was, how to turn it off, etc. Torture is wrong and ineffective, and the scenario ain’t happening.


  4. You know I am in group C…but I do have reservations of our past. The internment of U.S. citizens during WWII, some of the travesties visited upon the south during the war of rebellion, some of the things done during the Vietnam conflict…but this state sponsored torture? It shreds any, and I mean any, alleged moral superiority we were supposed to have in taking action in Iraq.

    Furthermore, all torture does it get the results the torturer wanted in the first place. Hurt someone long enough, they will say whatever you want to hear.


  5. being a fomer us marine if it saves only one of my brothers im all for it,fight fire with fire. it is clear to me none of you have ever been to a combat zone or have ever served this great nation! its called war for a reason.suck it up butter cups!


  6. It’s clear to me, Mike, that you don’t really understand what makes our nation great in the first place.


  7. Your telling a us marine he doesnt understand what makes his nation great ! its people like me that went to somolia ,the gulf .i earned my fucking stay, what the fuck have you done? just keep running your sewer we all need a breeze


  8. I stand by what I said, Mike. One of the things that makes our nation great is the fact that we have respect for individual liberty and human rights. One of the chief manifestations of this value is the fact that we don’t torture people.

    I won’t give up my values for safety (real or perceived). How about you?

    Thanks for your service, by the way. As for what I’ve done, I earn the money that pays your salary.


  9. Mike thank you for your service to our county, but with all due respect I am not sure I want you fighting in my name (especially if you are fighting wars that I don’t believe in). I believe only a country that believes inalienable rights and the equality of man is worth fighting for. I am sorry if combat made you believe something else, but I will go on living in my idealist world until I have no other choice.

    It is interesting that in these torture debates the only people that I have witnessed being agreeable to “doing whatever is necessary” and “fighting fire with fire” are guys that have been in the military. I don’t think fighting makes you any sort of authority. I am not sure what it does to you, but I don’t want it to happen to me.


  10. What a crock. I’m with Mike:
    http://rightcal.blogspot.com/2008/01/pathetic.html



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