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Palin, Obama and experience

September 2, 2008

Sure, experience is a valid question for someone running in a presidential election. Of course it is. And, let’s face it, Obama’s resume is a bit thin as far as these things go. But that’s why he’s been getting himself out there for two frickin’ years, meeting people, campaigning, debating, issuing detailed policy positions, letting the people inspect him to determine whether he’s got the right stuff. That’s what people have to do if they don’t have lengthy records to run on, and that’s exactly as it should be.

Obama has done this, and, judging by how far he’s come, he’s done a pretty good job of assuaging concerns about his limited experience.

Which brings us to Sarah Palin. She also has a very thin resume and a very short time in government. It is incumbent upon her to deal with it as Obama has done: get out there and sell herself, experience and all. We’ll see how she does, but my gut feeling is that she ain’t no Obama.

There’s a lot of reasons I wouldn’t vote for her. Her views on abortion rights and abstinence-only sex ed come to mind. But all that aside, she truly doesn’t strike me as presidential material. And, after all, that is the single most important criteria for a vice presidential candidate: she has to be ready to be president at a moment’s notice.

To me she looks more like a PTA president than a US president.

And then there are the scandals–both personal and professional.

This is who McCain thinks is the best qualified Republican to be on his ticket? Really?

This is the beginning of the end for McSame. The selection of Palin just put him over the edge. He has officially jumped the shark and is now on a fast track to becoming a very small footnote in the Barack Obama story.

Predictions.

1. Palin won’t drop out unless another scandal erupts. And it would have to be a really nasty personal one.

2. If she did drop out the narrative would be that she didn’t want to subject her poor family to the blast furnace heat of vicious liberal hatred directed at her via the “MSM”–not that she was found to be a poorly vetted, cynically chosen, ill-qualified, scandal-ridden nightmare of a running mate.

3. She’ll likely stay. But stay or go, Obama will win the election and the popular vote by at least 5 percentage points.

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  1. I so hope you’re right about Obama and McWorse. To me, the Palin pick shows St. John as both as someone who recklessly goes with his gut, and as someone who is completely in the pocket of the most freakish wing of the religious right. I used to respect the guy, and even thought in 2000 that between him and Gore it would have been a great race in which he would have made a compelling argument, even for hardcore Dems such as myself.

    But now he’s Bush and Rove’s man, he’s Dobson’s man, he certainly is not his own. That he has hired both Steve Schmidt and now Tucker Askew, both Rove men who trashed his family 8 years ago speaks volumes about him.


  2. Wow. Isn’t it amazing how you have Sarah Palin labeled as scandal ridden, and ignore the fact that Obama got 100s of thousands of dollars from his close friend, and convicted felon Tony Rezko to buy his home. You ignored Obama’s affiliation with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. His cozy relationship with the Daley machine slipped your mind too?

    But clearly Sarah Palin is just loaded with scandals.

    She will, as you said, be subjected to “blast furnace heat of vicious liberal hatred”. She will have survive the media “torpedo alley”. She will be attacked, her kids will be attacked ( and already have been), they’ll call her a bad mom, and imply that her place is in the home….as they already have. Sanctimonious bloggers will call her a PTA mom. And it is only going to get more vicious.

    But don’t worry, all these mean spirited, often slanderous attacks will come from well meaning all inclusive politically correct liberals. You know the kind. They are the ones who NEVER practice what they preach.

    Dude, get out of your liberal enclave once in awhile. Come an visit the rest of us here in gun and bible clinging country. Maybe you would actually find a smattering of diversity in your heart. Real diversity, not just liberal and ultra liberal……


  3. You make a good point: Two of the three years that Senator Obama has been Senator have been spent campaigning for the Presidency.

    During those same two years, Governor Palin was governing Alaska.

    It’s not a valid comparison in any case. Senator Obama’s opponent in this race is Senator McCain, and Obama’s experience is laughable compared to McCain’s.

    But while we’re on the subject of Governor Palin, I am appalled at the sexist, misogynist arguments I have seen written about her. For example, “To me she looks more like a PTA president than a US president.” And these comments are all coming from liberals — the people who tell us they believe in equality!

    Incidentally, I find the comparisons between President Bush and Senator McCain, i.e. McSame, McBush, etc., to be disingenuous. Liberals cheered for McCain for years because he was constantly in George Bush’s face. The comment by Snabby, above, admits as much. He was the darling of the liberal media. But now that he is running against Obama he is McSame? McWorse? Not his own man? It smacks of intellectual dishonesty.


  4. […] “To me she looks more like a PTA president than a US president.”  (See full post here). […]


  5. Menagerie Manager, what you say regarding your guy is objectively false. Up through 2000, McWorse was a different man. I didn’t say anything about him in a postive light since then, because I haven’t seen it.

    In fact, he and people like Holy Fucking Joe Lieberman are among the worst politicians in the U.S. because they, with their reputations for crossing party lines, have given cover to the most awful aspects of the Bush administration. Since 2001 this has been true.

    McWorse hasn’t been in Bush’s face except for getting some kisses. Example: his bill that was supposed to prevent torture, the Detainee Treatment Act. Your guy, who actually knows what being tortured feels like, allowed it to be watered down, and knew that Bush would add a signing statement, negating it. He went down without a fight. And that has been his consistent pattern: talk a good game, and give in to Bush.

    I doubt there have been too many liberals who have respected him since he has shown in the last 8 years that he doesn’t respect himself. Just imagine having your family treated as Bush treated McCain’s, and then still sucking up to him.

    Meanwhile, I will grant that there has been misogynist talk about Palin, which is totally unnecesssary. Palin is an awfully weak candidate on the merits. Not only does she have no relevant experience, she is on the far fringes with regard to what she appears to stand for.


  6. One other thing: McWorse has certainly been the darling of the mainstream media, but that does not make him a favorite of liberals. Nor can anyone at this point seriously argue that the media have a liberal bent.

    You can trot out all the coverage of Obama, but you’ll forget to mention that most of that coverage has been negative. You’ll forget that Obama’s story is actually interesting, whereas your pasty old MsWorse has been around since the the dinosaurs.

    It never ceases to amaze me that Republicans have the ability to shut out objective reality in order to believe themselves.


  7. Snabby, you’re response smacks more of schoolyard name-calling than any reasoned argument. Perhaps you’ll get chuckles on an Obamabot site like Daily KOS or Democratic Underground, but educated, thinking people don’t argue like that. F-Bombs and mean spirited name slurs are not argument. My seven year old daughter knows better than that.

    And to say that Repulican’s shut out objective reality….well, heh.

    Pot, meet the kettle.


  8. Yes, she is scandal-ridden. Perhaps after it all has been looked at and hashed over, she’ll come out looking as clean as Obama has–and perhaps not. It just so happens that most of the things you cite against him didn’t turn up any fire under the smoke. He bought his house for market value. That’s a stone cold fact. Barack Obama was in the eighth grade when William Ayers committed crimes, and there is no meaningful connection between them. That’s also a hard fact. But you know what? People asked. And they were right to ask. And those questions have been looked at and put to rest. The ones who aren’t liking the answers are probably the same people who believe Bill Clinton had people killed as governor of Arkansas.

    Yes, she looks more like a PTA president than a US vice president. Sexist? Not intended to be. You know who doesn’t look like a PTA president? Condoleeza Rice. Olympia Snowe. Kay Bailey Hutchison. They exude the statesmanlike gravitas one expects from a person running for the office, while Palin does not. Neither does Michelle Obama–but she’s not running for anything.

    I agree with the comments above about McCain and the way he’s changed since becoming a 2008 candidate. I liked him much better in 2000, when he truly was a maverick. I remember distinctly when he used the term “agents of intolerance” to describe the religious hater wing of the Republican party. I cheered. But today he is kissing up to those folks big-time. He has done other about-faces, too. All of them make him look less independent and more like an establishment, Bush-era, neocon Republican. Exactly the kind I do NOT want in the white house.


  9. Wev, Family Guy. “Obamabot” is what? Not a name-slur? And among adults, since we know the obscenities, and since Joe Lieberman is one of the most despicable people in American history, the use of one is warranted.

    “Pot, meet the kettle” doesn’t have much meat on its bones as a reasoned argument, does it? Or was the reasoning in “heh?” You are, perhaps, a Glenn Reynolds acolyte?

    Obama was probably my 4th choice, after Dodd, Richardson, and Edwards (who disappointed me greatly with what was just revealed about his character.) I don’t swoon over Obama, although his speeches are very uplifting. I do, however, believe he could be a very good president.

    Here’s real story: we are about as close to fascism in this country as we’ve ever been. A McCain presidency would pretty much lock that in. I’m not sure if a Democrat in the office is enough to turn back the tide, but it’s the best bet.


  10. we are about as close to fascism in this country as we’ve ever been.

    Too true.

    A McCain presidency would pretty much lock that in.

    I’m not so sure. Rudy Giuliani would have sent us over the edge for sure, but not McCain. For all his recent embracing of modern Republicanism for campaigning purposes, I think most of the badness of his presidency would be realized in missed opportunities.

    Then again, I worry a great deal about his age and health. Doubly so now that he has chosen Palin. Can anyone seriously visualize her as chief diplomat to the world or as commander in chief of the armed forces? The very thought gives me the shivers.


  11. Please describe your definition of Fascism.

    The dictionary says: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

    If that IS your definition, then please describe in some factual fashion how electing John McCain will equal Fascism.

    For extra credit, maybe you could specify how Joe Lieberman “is one of the most despicable people in American history”. My history books contained allot of bad people, however, they had all committed heinous acts or spewed the rhetoric of true evil.

    Statements like that make you seem unhinged. They also make it seem as if you have no true knowledge about Fascism or it’s place in history.

    So please, explain. I’m sure it will make for an amusing read.


  12. My father in law was a young boy in Germany when fascists took over. While driving around his little hometown a few years ago, he pointed out to us the house where his little Polish girlfriend and other Poles living in the town were held prisoner. He talked about waving to her through the window. He related how terrified his family was when the Nazis burst into their home because they had an emblem of an opposing party and it had been stamped all over the ceiling. They knew that if the Nazis looked up, they would all be arrested. He never knew what happened to his little Polish girlfriend because at the age of 16 he was drafted, put into a tank, and sent to North Africa and Russia, where he was held as a prisoner of war until 1948. We have a notebook he kept, cut to fit into his shoe to hide, with the names of all the people they killed in his prison camp.

    I can’t say that I have experienced fascism firsthand, but I heard a lot of stories about it from someone who did, and there is nothing like that happening in America.

    Reckless comparisons like this (Bush is Hitler, Republicans are fascist), desensitize us to the true nature of fascism and reveal an appalling lack of knowledge about the true nature of fascism.

    Poet and philosopher George Santayana said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”


  13. I’ll chime in for what it’s worth.

    a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism,

    Sounds like the direction Bush/Cheney has been heading, even if we haven’t quite arrived there yet. Bush flouts the law, invades the privacy of Americans, and his supporters attack dissenters by calling them unpatriotic and un-American. No serious-minded person would say that bush is a fascist. But many serious people believe that he’s been leading America in that direction. I’m one of them. And frankly, anyone running for president who doesn’t denounce this trend, call it what it is, and demand its immediate reversal is highly suspect in my book.

    Lieberman isn’t one of the worst people in American history. At least not to me. I think he’s a very hawkish Democrat, to be sure, but he’s also more than that. I think he’s a political opportunist who simply cast aside his beliefs and values for the purposes of self promotion. Surely you know that he begged Obama to campaign for him when he was facing a hard election at home. Obama did so. Now Lieberman is speaking at Obama’s opponent’s political rally? At some point in that story Joe isn’t exactly holding steadfast to his values. Either he sought the support of someone he doesn’t agree with politically, or he’s abandoning someone he does believe in now. However you slice it, he comes out looking like a schmendrick.


  14. Reckless comparisons like this (Bush is Hitler, Republicans are fascist), desensitize us to the true nature of fascism and reveal an appalling lack of knowledge about the true nature of fascism.

    Point taken. But refusing to understand that people who elected and supported fascist governments are not fundamentally different from us is equally irresponsible. Stop and ask yourself whether creeping authoritarianism doesn’t look a bit like the Bush administration and the political climate of the last eight years. It sure as hell does to me.


  15. There is no creeping authoritarianism. Please tell me that you don’t really believe this stuff. There has been no government censorship in the last 8 years. If you say otherwise, then prove it. There has been no use of the Patriot Act to ferret out the radical political goofs in the last 8 years. If you say otherwise, then prove it. No death squads, no secret police, no government control of the means of production, no suppression of the opposition by the government (quite the opposite really, the folks at move-on are flourishing and ACORN is going gangbusters whipping out the fake voter registrations ). No criticism has been suppressed (Don’t you think the real fascists would have knocked on your door by now, Scott), no dissenters have been rounded up. There is no aggressive nationalism and there is no implementation of a one-party no representative system. My parents survived real communism and fascism. Their stories chilled me when I was young. No boogey man was ever needed in my house…..reality was sufficient.

    It is irresponsible and intellectually dishonest to try and use fiery and dangerous words to inaccurately villainize people you disagree with. It creates a false idea of the real dangers of fascism. To say you disagree stringently is one thing, but to label your opposition as inhumanly evil is another.

    I had thought you better than this up till now. Perhaps I have been mistaken.


  16. Family Guy,

    Although the Bush administration are apparently your guys, surely you can see the direction things are going. We have Cheney and Addington saying that the VP represents a fourth branch of government accountable to no one, and they have certainly played that way. The notion of co-equal branches of government is something they laugh off. Bush’s signing statements, the total number of which is greater than the sum of all the signing statements of all previous presidents, are the administration’s legalistic means of refusing to obey the law. Can you deny it? If you’re having trouble with it, just picture what you’d think if it were, say, President Gore. See how easy that is?

    Then we’ve got the pretty obvious militarism, the demonization of Muslims, the rise of mercenary groups like Blackwater. What does that look like to you, Big Guy? Short of quoting from a dictionary, you haven’t said much for yourself.

    Sure, we are not yet a fascist country, but you don’t simply wake up one morning to find that you are in one. It happens gradually. And I don’t want it to happen here. Yes, direct comparisons are reckless (and I am sure you’d agree that Jonah Goldberg calling liberals fascists is reckless) but being concerned about the direction, and calling that what it is, is anything but.

    Perhaps I should have said Lieberman was one of the most despicable people in American POLITICAL history. I say that because he is a turncoat to his party and to his principles. I say that because he gives cover to the wrongs of the Republican party, who point to him as evidence that what they do is “bi-partisan,” because he is a warmonger, and because after losing an election in 2006 he wanted a do-over.


  17. There has been no use of the Patriot Act to ferret out the radical political goofs in the last 8 years.

    How do you know what the Act has been used for? How do you know what the NSA wiretapping program was used for? That’s the whole point, man–you don’t. And that’s how it starts. That’s what we’re saying. That’s how it starts. When the president flouts the law, the constitution and the privacy of Americans, we’re in serious, serious trouble. Add in a healthy dose of militarism, xenophobia and demonization of dissent and you’ve really got the seeds of something there. And that’s where we stand.

    the folks at move-on are flourishing

    Yeah, and with my money, too. What’s your point?

    ACORN is going gangbusters whipping out the fake voter registrations

    No, genius. ACORN busted lazy canvassers who were faking some of their registrations. ACORN is the organization that caught it, stopped it, reported it, and fired them. You should praise the great job they did and stop hyperventilating about it.

    Don’t you think the real fascists would have knocked on your door by now, Scott)

    I ain’t waiting for them to come. We’re admittedly a long way from that point, but I’m not going to put my head in the sand and pretend we’re not aimed in that direction.

    no dissenters have been rounded up.

    Perhaps not, but don’t you think it’s, you know, odd that the president claims the power to arrest anyone–anyone!–and hold them indefinitely if he only claims he’s doing so because of national security? No judicial review. No probable cause. No day in court. No charges. No habeas corpus. No nothing. That is what he pushed for, that was his position. And although the supreme court recently knocked him down a peg on habeas, it frightens me a great deal. It should frighten you, too, if you care about American freedom and the constitution.

    There is no aggressive nationalism

    Dude, where are you from? Wherever it is, it must be a long way from the United States. You should visit sometime.

    It is irresponsible and intellectually dishonest to try and use fiery and dangerous words to inaccurately villainize people you disagree with.

    That just makes my irony-o-meter spin wildly as I think about the kind of rhetoric the Bush admin and it’s supporters have used when talking about its domestic detractors since the run up to Iraq.


  18. One question.

    Are we winning in Iraq?

    We turned Anbar over to them on Monday, mainstream media, did not report it at all. Maybe on page 19b.

    We have reached 15 out of 18 benchmarks to date.

    This will be a major theme of the election, and the DEM’s have already said we “lost” the war. Harry Reid must have been swearing at his TV last night…

    I would have love to been in the room, so I could have walked by and smacked the dumbass in the back of the head..


  19. Oh and by the way,

    Scott, You need to adjust your margins as your hyperlinks are being overlayed by the posting entries..


  20. Snabby,
    Show me where the Constitution has been violated? You can deliver left-wing spins on statements that you have never read completely, ….but show me how our Constitution or basic government has been changed. Demonization of Muslims? Where? I’d say quite the opposite is happening in government. We are being told to be hyper-sensitive to Muslims. While some dopes may hurl insults, that has more to do with 9-11 than George Bush. Mercenary groups? So having a company provide private security is now Fascism? Only if you believe in the black helicopters and your tinfoil hat is on too tight. You should try to read things more objectively (that means taking off those “Bush is Hitler” colored glasses while you read) and perhaps try some articles that are not published at Huffington post.

    And you seem to imply that I have a double standard for Presidents (I would hate Gore’s anti-capitalist. anti-American policies, but I doubt that he would violate the Constitution….. I mean who knows, he may have actually had a hand in inventing it). In an Un-Liberal fashion, I can actually describe how I both agree and disagree with Republicans. Sarah Palin is popular among conservatives because she DID take on the Republicans that have gone native in the circles of government. There is a basic difference in philosophy here. The left has defended EVERYTHING “the Obama” has done, and can find no fault in his dirty dealings in Chicago. I can see the faults of George Bush, and his virtues as well. I can admit where he was short-sighted and I can point to his good works. I can see the same things in the Presidency of Bill Clinton. Good and bad. There is the difference, you can only see the bad in those you oppose. That is why they invented the term “ideologue” and why you use the term “your guys”.

    Gotta go, it’s my shift monitoring the hurricane machine, and then my turn distributing drugs to the poor. If I don’t finish, I’ll miss the big Exxon/Haliburton Bibles and Guns music festival.


  21. Brilliant Scott! Now I see it. The proof that we are becoming fascist is that there is NO proof! Clearly, the proof is being hidden, and that is a conspiracy….even worse.

    Perhaps if we stopped fighting terror and used our justice system the way it was meant to be used, we’d be safe from the imaginary….er, I mean secret….secret arrests. We could read em their rights (They do have rights, don’t they…isn’t there a section in the Constitution on terrorists?….or maybe in the appendix of the Suicide Bombers Primer) and then “book em Dano”. Yes that would save us from the dangers of Bush.

    Oh, and more tin foil hats……..


  22. Family Guy,

    I appreciate your efforts at trying to find this guy’s good side, but you’re wasting your time. There isn’t one. In the name of pushing his politicians and policies, there’s no lie he won’t tell.


  23. I know you’re not talking about me, Calvin. Because if you are, I think you’d better clarify what you’re talking about.

    TFG, it doesn’t worry you that your government–the government you so vehemently claim to distrust when it comes to spending your tax dollars–is claiming the right to listen to your phone calls without judicial oversight, without accountability to any other branch of government or anything at all? Perhaps it seems just fine to you as long as the government also says that it’s doing this in order to keep the bad, scary people away from you. Well, I’m not so easily frightened. Freedom is indeed dangerous, but I still want mine. Al Qaeda has no capability to take away my freedom or destroy our way of life–but an authoritarian government surely does.

    I’m sorry we disagree. But we definitely do. The silly carricatures you paint of your fellow Americans is sad. Nobody wants to read rights to foreign terrorists. The fact that you seem to think someone is wringing their hands over this very prospect indicates to me where the passion behind your words come from. But you’re wrong. I love America. So does Al Gore. So do the members of the ACLU. And all of us want to see enemies of our country brought to swift and certain justice. But we believe we can achieve this without casting aside our own rights and freedoms. We believe we can do this without casting aside our own humanity by torturing captured prisoners.

    No, I honestly don’t see wrongdoing in Obama’s house purchase. I think it’s unfortunate that it involved someone who was later convicted of a completely unrelated crime. Repeating the falsehood that Obama didn’t pay market value for his house, that it was some kind of under the table favor, is simply wrong. The issue has been investigated and there simply is no there there. Read some news articles. Really.

    Neither do I find any fault like that with senator McCain. He may say misleading things about Obama’s tax reform proposals, but this is politics. No harm, no foul. He’ll be called on it. I’m not worried.

    Palin, however, is grossly misrepresenting her record as a public official in Alaska. That’s easy to see. I’m sorry you don’t want to see it.

    Does admitting such a thing mean one has to vote for Obama? Not at all. But flatly denying it speaks ill of your ability to put good judgement head of your ideology.


  24. TFG,

    There is no point in arguing with you, as you put up only strawmen to knock down (e.g., Bush=Hitler, which I neither said nor impied.) It’s sad, really. Find where I said Obama or anyone else was perfect. Didn’t and don’t think so. I’ve even found some things to agree upon with some Republicans, even have some as friends. But in your little world, the “Left” is controlled by…someone, I forget if it’s Markos, George Soros, Michael Moore, and then you go and mention Arrianna Huffington. Darn, it’s so hard to keep my demagogues straight.

    Insofar as the violation of the Constitution is concerned, I can’t prove, but am certain, that all of our 4th amendment rights have been violated by the spying of the government on citizens.

    You may console yourself with the notion that if we did nothing wrong, we have nothing to fear, or that we can trust the government. I can’t — our way of government demands that we in fact challenge our government, and do not simply trust it.

    So if it feels better for you, keep your head in the sand, talk about black helicopters and tinfoil. Good luck with that.


  25. Freedom x Security = A constant. Change one and you invariably change the other. I would prefer to pry into the computers and cell phones of suspected terrorists rather than be witness to their acts of religious expression.

    There are many groups out there (Yes, the ACLU is one) who are fighting to give the peace loving freedom fighters in Gitmo a “fair” trial. They want habeas corpus, a jury, witnesses, and a full and public accounting of the evidence. Just imagine the impossibility of collecting evidence and maintaining a legal chain of custody on a battle field. Impossible. Witnesses? Fingerprints? These innocents, if placed into our system of justice, will be required to be set free. While I’m sure that sends a tingle up your leg, it sends chills down my spine. Imagine the same standards having been applied to German soldiers in WW2.

    I won’t bother regaling you with the rather lengthy list of Obama’s pseudo-legal aquisitions and his liberal distribution of tax dollars to his friends. You would just ignore it, though much of it is quite well documented. You are going to believe in the Obama, so I won’t waste my time trying to make that point. You can lead a horse to water…..


  26. TFG,

    We both know if there were some serious documented facts about Obama that would show him to be corrupt, they would be everywhere, your obvious and clearly objectively wrong protests about the liberal media notwithstanding.

    You guys live in a world of fact-free propaganda. Nice how you can impugn others’ patriotism and still believe yourselves to be patriots. You’d be an interesting experiment, to see whether you are one of the manipulators, or one of the manipulated. Maybe both.

    So sorry you live in fear of freedom and everything else. Why don’t you move somewhere less free (China comes to mind) instead of trying to make America less free? I agree with you on one thing: freedom is risky. I can deal with it. Why can’t you?


  27. Well, there is actually a lot of negative stuff out there about Obama. You won’t see the mainstream media pushing it though. Polls show that 85% of them are Obama supporters, but I’m sure that their lean to the left does not influence what they say. I won’t bother going into it with you though, Snabby. You are clearly an ideologue, so what would be the point.

    Impugn patriotism? Did I mention patriotism? Perhaps you just have a guilty conscience (there, now I actually did what I was accused of).

    I live in fear of freedom? And, did I just see you write “Love it or leave it”? How cliché of you….and it’s always such a great argument. And China? Do you actually know anything about China? Well, more specifically, anything that is true?

    As for freedom, I can see that you are one of those who believe you have absolute freedom, no duty to protect it, and no responsibility in how you wield that freedom. In essence, you really have no clue what American freedom really is, you just like to shoot off your mouth. Luckily, I have my tinfoil hat on to deflect the bullets.



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